news — Nation and World 'I feel like I was the victim': Former high school teacher blames student for seducing her.
Hera, Greek Goddess of Love and Marriage. Myths and symbols of the Greek goddesses. Goddess Quiz reveals your goddess within to access the power of the divine feminine. Scene from "How To Seduce Difficult Women" (original score by Lucía Caruso)
Nothing terribly interesting in and of itself. The samples of his advice he was giving… well, that was a different story. As soon as the controversy broke, he took them down, but the Google cache is still available. Never, ever, ever, wait for a SIGN before you escalate! You will miss out on the vast majority of chances if you sit around waiting for SIGNS. From now on you must ASSUME that she is attracted to you and wants to be ravished. She wants to be desired, but the circumstances need to be right.
Rub your hands up and down her legs. Make her push your hand away as you get closer to her vagina. Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself seducing difficult women a LEADER. This right here is an excellent example of why I have problems with the Pick Up Artist community. I am actually not anti-pick up in general. I think that, when approached rationally and sanely that it can be a valuable resource.
The state of dating advice for men is, frankly, fairly abysmal. If you are, then great! If a young man were to decide that he wanted to get better at math, nobody would blink twice at his finding a tutor or taking extra classes. If he wanted to get better at basketball, seducing difficult women, it would seem like the most normal thing in the world to find a trainer to help him improve his skills, build up his fitness and zero in on his weaknesses.
Women are socialized to be more open with their feelings and insecurities, seducing difficult women, to not feel ashamed for asking for help or admitting weakness. I learned how to overcome many self-limiting beliefs about who I was and what I was capable of. It makes sense when you think about it. Part of the point of many Pick Up schools is to reduce dating to a formula… or a game.
If you want to talk to a woman, you run routine A. The Emotional Progression Model further simplifies matters by treating interactions as a series of stages that lead inevitably to sex. Instead of just getting to know somebody, bantering with them and getting to know them as a person, you have to build up enough Attraction in order to make it through to Comfort and keep her there long enough until you can make your move to the seducing difficult women. And to be perfectly honest, a lot of the techniques that Pick Up Artists advocate are, frankly, coercive as hell to the point of sexual assault.
One of the biggest issues in the PUA community is the way that the community as a whole encourages treating women. Let that sink in for a moment: impressionable, socially inexperienced men being taught that what women say and what women want are two different things.
It follows logically then that you should ignore what they say … and the community teaches tactics to do precisely that. Dealing with Last Minute Resistance is where PUAs take the rape-cake. In the PUA community, seducing difficult women, LMR is the boss battle of the dating RPG and it needs to be overcome so you can get your reward.
This is your fault; you need to do something about this. Much of pick-up is based on the idea of women as opponents rather than as potential partners. There are a great number of intellectual fallacies at work in pick up philosophy, especially the fallacy of composition, seducing difficult women. Therefore every woman is going to test any man who approaches her to see what she can get out of him. She may tease him or call him out for saying something cheesy.
She may have had a bad day. She may be tired of all the dudes coming up to hit on her. I had just watched a girl I was flirting with go home with someone else.
I had serious self-esteem issues and a host of problems with deservedness, intimacy and relationships. You become all flash with no substance, trying to hide the hole in your life instead of filling it in.
I think it says a lot that the dude took down the rapetastic excerpts after they were brought to light, not because they were, well, horrifyingly predatory, seducing difficult women, but because they made him look bad. Not that they ARE bad, but MADE HIM LOOK bad. We perhaps can and in some cases, seducing difficult women, should discuss the "why" later.
Someone attempting to push past a No may or may not be an actual rapist, but he is sure tripping my alarm wires and waving some giant red flags. Not respecting my No is a surefire way of making sure you never get a Yes. You, on the other hand, seducing difficult women, have no place adding "but try again later" to her "no.
It is a basic social expectation that you will attempt to interpret what a person says as how they mean it. I could see how "No, but try again later" is to aggressive. I prefer "No, not right now", which more logically accurately implies that it might mean try again later, or it might not.
If they mean "BACK OFF FOREVER", then they want the guy to do that. Err on the side of not raping. If a girl is passive and tells boys no when she means yes, she is creating her own problem. The boys are doing the correct thing by backing off.
They have no way of knowing if seducing difficult women actually means yes, AND THEY SHOULD NOT ASSUME SO. How does one aquire such a magical ability? You could try talking to them, seducing difficult women.
And I said change their mind, not force them into anything. I am sure these women exist. If the rule was to back off when a woman expressed disinterest and especially when she said no, maybe the women who were disingenuous about their intentions would even learn to be either more upfront or to be more proactive about letting men know when they had changed their minds. The norm is not that slight disinterest means "NO GET OFF OF ME.
The irony is that that creates self-fullfilling prophecy — by assuming that everyone who approaches women are assholes, that weirdly ensures that the only people who approach women are assholes.
I agree with the point. Its too bad its still nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with how things reflect on you. Because even "no means no" took a generation to take hold. And she had a constant string of guys interested in her — and a number of women who seemed to hate her for it, seducing difficult women. Both parties should be pleased with their decision to have sex, not just one.
FWIW, I agree that enthusiasm is deeply attractive in either gender. This is totally true because people want to date people who are attractive and show enthusiasm. Its not so much that women as a whole are afraid to show enthusiasm as that the ones who do are much more likely to be in a relationship.
So it appears that women have an issue with showing enthusiasm because unenthusiastic women are much more likely to be single. Because, yes, seducing difficult women, a woman who is fun to be around is going to have more guys interested in her. In the last paragraph, seducing difficult women, this comment hits the nail on the head —.
Waiting for unbridled enthusiasm to make a move, or even sleep together for the first time, is basically waiting for a magical unicorn to show up. But the first time? Could it have something to do with worrying about getting hit on? I know many women who police their actions in situations where they might get unwanted attention. A lot of the advice about self-esteem, working on yourself, collaborative vs. So, it irks and annoys me when men manipulate women this way. Honestly, it ticks me off more for its abuse of language.
Words are supposed to convey ideas, not create an outcome from another person. Playing a role belongs on stage or in the bedroomnot in conversation. I am in no danger of becoming a PUA, because to speak that way leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
While I detest and eschew their methods, seducing difficult women, I sympathize somewhat with their goals. When the article talks about the commodity model of sex, that makes more sense to me than a less well-defined view. I want a relationship where the entitlements and obligations on both sides are clearly defined, seducing difficult women.
This is why the goals of a PUA appeal to me. They may win, they may lose, but they never question themselves. Thinking and working are what I do in the day so I can go home at night and veg out. I expect my partners to be monogamous, and to be monogamous myself. Seducing difficult women problem with this is nothing can be really certain in a relationship. A lot of people also do not like clearly defining the terms because its not really romantic. I also imagine that many women really do not situations where they are obligated to give sex for reasons that should be obvious.
What I fear seducing difficult women getting no return. Something like, seducing difficult women movie had seducing difficult women have been made for lobotomized turtles! The director should be beaten with his own camera. That includes our sense of humour and the way we speak.
I present a somewhat-polished up version of myself on first dates not even the most polished or dressiest, I save that for when I already know I like him and try to figure out if the two of us click. Dates will sometimes express surprise when I cuss and I have a bit of a potty mouth but all that happens is that it makes them relax a little more.
So, seducing difficult women, PJA, your down payment is. And your expected return is. You might get more flies with honey than vinegar but no one ever grew an apple tree by planting orange seeds. Try putting down a much lighter down payment or even no down payment at all and just be yourself.
Make some friends both male and female and see where that takes you. The most valuable things anyone can give another, seducing difficult women, regardless of gender, are time, attention, respect, and consistently deliver all of those. Men and women should be investing equally in all of those at all stages of the relationship. I can only speak for myself, but since I am seducing difficult women feminist woman in a long-term successful relationship with the Most Awesome Man Alive, it might be a useful perspective.
I find clarity good and uncertainty stressful. But it actually requires a fair amount of thinking and work to maintain that clarity, seducing difficult women, and to ensure that our obligations to one another are both practical and just. We change, both as we grow and as our life circumstances change.
So we focus on having clarity of process and principles rather than having a fixed set of rules, because no set of rules will be right for us forever. Note that I only say we share obligations: I find the notion of entitlement, on either side, quite toxic — even after sixteen years. I think a mutual non-entitlement, obligation-only relationship is actually pretty great. Or at least mine is! The problem with the commodity model of sex is not that things have to be undefined. Do you see how those assumptions go quite a bit further than just "I like things well-defined?
There are far healthier ways to have clarity about sex. I also think that "love, romance, and sex" are rather by definition not spoils — meaning, they are in actions and choices you make every single day. The work IS the romance IS the love IS the sex. I imagine the equation is different for one-offs or maybe short relationships. Now, the thing about this game is that most people including me!
In a romantic relationship, I feel like you ARE entitled to respect and courtesy, and a partner be it a long-term partner or a just-for-tonight partner not willing or able to meet that obligation needs to be dumped. But neither of you is ever entitled to sex, and neither of you is ever obligated to fuck the other. If she, or anyone says, "And you must agree that neither am I," then my OBJECTION!
That is your choice of course, seducing difficult women, and you have every right to make it. When I talk about this stuff with my husband, we use the term "commitments" rather than "obligations.
If you have sex where your partner is consenting enthusiastically, which is the only kind of sex you should be having, then your partner presumably wants to have sex with you as much as you want to have it with her. You are both getting the mutual enjoyment of having a fun and pleasurable experience together. What if she likes sex more than you do? The parties could be seducing difficult women just as well. The question then becomes where you meet women with those sexual values, and what they are looking for in a partner.
The way you framed your example plays into the "men want sex, women want love" narrative, which is likely to turn off precisely the kind of women you want to meet.
Flipping it lets you make your point without unintended baggage. The point where you transition from "me and you" to "us" depends on the relationship. She denied it, but if we had back-to-back "quickies" which she claimed that she wanted as a part of our sexual repertoire, even though they were very unlikely to get her offI could count on us having a Very Serious Talk about her needs not being met. Later, "We need to talk…. It needed to explode in my face before I could see that, unfortunately.
Would you think me wishy-washy if I answered "both"? I mean, it kind of sets up a set of incentives for each person to be as withholding as possible, so that they have a lot to negotiate with when it comes time for them to press for leather or wigs or threesomes. I think it works a lot better if people try to figure out where their boundaries are independently and be as giving as they can to their partners within those bounds, without any trading required.
If someone has too many of those for you to be satisfied, then I would generally suggest ending the relationship rather than continually pushing or offering tradeoffs. I have a lot of anti-kinks myself. This works for us because the really important part is just pleasing the other person. You are into her wearing a wig. How can you two solve the problem together?
My partner and I both enjoy our sex but have slightly different kinks. We have never worked this out as any sort of official agreement, seducing difficult women. I buy myself clothes for his birthday presents that I would never wear otherwise because I love how happy and etc… it makes him, seducing difficult women.
Not to say that you should never sit down and discuss kinks or anything else related to sex with your partner. And if you like something, you may also ask them about it. Thing is, though, every band needs a certain balance of instruments. Sure, jamming can be creative and thus there will not be a strict musical structure, but if you only get people with guitars and one base player, there will not br balance, there will be competition, and the base player will likely opt to jam with the guitarists he likes best.
As such, it is very hard to believe that our sexuality is enough to exhange for what we want. I mean, sorry for being stereotypical, but still — think of an average night in a club.
But women are collectively doing a horrible job at making guys believe we can be desired in the way we desire women. I mean, you can certainly say that prostitution is a cultural artefact of patriarchy, and without patriarchy all sexual desires would be balanced, men would not have to pay money in addition to giving their bodies. All brothels would become gender-balanced swinger-clubs for those who like to have sex.
But it could also be the other way around: that patriarchy is a cultural consequence of the perceived value differences of female and male sexuality, and that the differences in the structures of female and male sexual desire are a cause of the problem rather than a consequence. But my guess is, sadly, that male bodies, on average, will never be as valuable sexually to women, as female bodies are, on average, to men, seducing difficult women.
I actually hope it is. Because most people looking for relationships want more from a partner than sex—and they intend to offer more as well they may be looking for someone who also has a great sense of humor and is passionate about X and so on, but they will reciprocate by sharing their own sense of humor and passion and so on.
The person who wanted a partner who offered more than just random sex is no less disappointed not to have found that than the person who wanted a partner who was up for random no-other-considerations sex. And so it is perfectly equal. Mel, I really like your framing, seducing difficult women, but I do want to add: speaking personally, I think "enjoy" needs to have a broad definition.
For that matter, partners can enjoy the same sexual encounter in different ways. Sure, if two people are already in an emotional duopoly, then their touch is are ideally, though not usually, equally valuable to each other. Same with "scoring", "get lucky"… usually these terms are applied to men who managed to be sexual in a world in which heterosexual sex is scarce for men.
But these differences imply that sexuality, at least prior to the emotional pair-bond-duopoly, is not something we can usually expect to pay for with our own sexuality. Individually as well as collectively. You want male sexuality to be valued? Place your emphasis o her pleasure instead of your own, seducing difficult women. That is a valuable commodity. Yes, Paul, if its not mutual you can get used. OK, fine, if this is going to be a thing:.
You want your sexuality to be valued? Place as much emphasis on her pleasure as you do on your own. True, in general men need to work on their attractivity is that a word? An average woman showing up somewhere and using only her physical attractiveness and the implied promise of sex is not likely to end up with a quality guy. Its only when you inject standards into the mix that you need more, and that applies to men and women both. A "quality" your term woman showing up somewhere and using only her physical attractiveness and the implied promise of sex would probably end up with a "quality" guy.
For those women who try to "score" that way, it usually seems to work. Almost all of us have grown up in a world where men find desirable and where their idea of what sensuality and good sex look like are given a great deal of attention.
Far less is paid to what women might want, and much of that ends up leaning on dominance or social status or money rather than actual sexuality. If you want your sexuality to have equal value, bring equal value to the table. To break it down, I think your second sentence starts out pessimistic and moves into overstating the problem, seducing difficult women. I think the first sentence is dead on but I go a step farther and say you can do that yourself right now.
But that aside, seducing difficult women, only looking at the first part: I got my sexual confidence by becoming successful with women. So, if you say that I can do that "right now", I would say that suggests that I can do it on my own.
But sexuality is by definition a relational activity. But how can you start to love yourself for your sexual self-worth if that sexual self-worth is not affirmed? Have you had sex before? Looking for what, specifically? Which is another way of saying: fake it til you make it. The archives actually propose to "fake it til you make it"…. A person can explore and enjoy their sexuality entirely on their own.
It is not a coin whose value lies in what you can exchange it for, its value lies in what pleasure it can give YOU. Our sexuality is the result of two organisms that started interacting to swap genes with each other, seducing difficult women.
The simpler way is this: do people think of masturbating as "sex"? Sexuality is also a mental and social construct. Your sex would have value. Being complimented, thinking yourself attractive or desirable would have nothing to do with this. But whatever sexuality exists today as a mental and social construct exists because of the swapping of genes thing. Being kissed and desired sexually felt more important to me, personally, than any of my degrees.
Masturbation, as well as educational and professional achievements were not able to provide me with that feeling of radical acceptance of myself, of, in a way, understanding the notion of being a complete, sexual human being.
With a simple kiss that woman gave me that. Of course I had worked on myself, and faked confidence. And of course, even afterwards, seducing difficult women, I still have doubts about my self-worth. But that first kiss helped in a way I cannot describe. Speaking from personal experience is awesome.
Talking about how the commodity model of sex hurts men is awesome. But oh please can we not get derailed into some stupid discussion of what "sex" versus "sexuality" means? I say this as someone who thinks she understands what you are saying, and really does not want to get into a stupid argument about the utter stupidity of almost all evolutionary psychology.
It seems to me being valued sexually should include feeling your individual sexuality not just the gender you happen to belong to is wanted and that the other person wants to touch you in ways you—not just they—will enjoy as well as having you pleasure them, for example. And I think a guy who was willing to sleep with any random person who would have him would be accepted for "what he is" instead of "what he does", too.
What really happens here is that someone convinces themselves that someone else has all the power, because of their sexuality, because they can make socially acceptable approaches, whatever. As soon as you give someone else the power, they have it because you gave it to them.
I go into it assuming that my sexuality is a desirable commodity. That applies in business situations just as much. Which was my main point. And I think you continue to miss mine. The way you get people to treat you like you have value is to believe you have value.
When making a point about the feeling of male sexual scarcity, it does make sense to look at the phenomenon from that point of view. Of course, we want to be valued as people, not just members of a class.
But the extent to which the class is or is not valued does influence the way we feel about ourselves. Again, my point is not that women have it better, my point is that many heterosexual men appear to feel that their sexuality in itself is insufficient to get them the sexuality they want. To address the situation, there seem to be two directions — help men feel that they can from their perspective, not yours "afford" a more selective strategy, give them the confidence that they, too, are allowed to say no without being afraid that it was the last chance on earth, and help women to employ a less selective strategy for example by socially removing things for her to worry about — like rape culture, for example, and slut shaming- women have a lot of good reasons to say no in a lot of cases, seducing difficult women.
Compliments that seem cheesy and are unlikely to work with women who have stopped finding them credible after hearing them indiscriminately will work perfectly for men. Small quibble that visual comments involve doing something, they just involve doing it before you leave the house.
If you want more visual compliments, dress better, moisturize and get your teeth fixed. Oh, and compliment other people sincerely. You should read the overall arc of my comments sometime.
Every change in situation along the way came from getting out of my own way. Nothing outside me changed. No one else had to validate me for me to feel valid. Smash the cultural hegemony!!!! I guess I just assumed that geeks, being used to not fitting in, tended not to buy into the. Next to none of my real world experience conforms to that narrative, even the times where getting a date seems impossible.
I agree with the above, that getting visual compliments generally involves doing things. When I get genuine ones i, seducing difficult women.
Women have to deal with entire industries that tell us how we should look to please men and what they want to see, and how we can work to achieve those things. Men who are seeking more visual compliments would do well to seek out the opinions of women about what they like to see and put some effort into their appearance to conform to that a bit more closely, seducing difficult women.
Just to the complimenting on physical features thing… Women are more likely to have people comment on their appearance in general, because women tend to be valued primarily for their appearance above anything else. We are bombarded by messages from all over that our looks are never good enough, that any pudge, wrinkle, or celulite is an abomnation, that we should aspire to look like women who are not only incredibly attractive with a team of stylists and make-up artists, but are also photoshopped beyond the bounds of reality on top of that.
Criticism stings more than compliments boost you; one nasty comment can make you doubt ten positive ones that came before it. You are imagining some ideal state where men would receive as much positive attention for their appearance as women do while ignoring all the negative attention that goes hand in hand with having people prioritize how appealing your looks are to them over anything else you can contribute.
I seducing difficult women one way in which women could help men develop a sense of sexual worthiness along a category men understand. You were very clearly comparing the number of visual compliments women get to the number of visual compliments men get, saying that women get far more to the point that "compliments that seem cheesy and are unlikely to work with women who have stopped finding them credible after hearing them indiscriminately will work perfectly for men"that this difference is part of the reason men feel less confident than women, and that if it were made more equal men would feel more confident.
I disagreed with your basic premise for reasons outlined in detail above. This is exactly why I was hesitant to get into any sort of conversation with you.
I see no reason to further engage with you. Yes, I said that women get more compliments than men. Which is why I think complimenting them is a good idea to help them develop the kind of sexual worthiness that would help them and the women in their lives. You then mentioned that I was dreaming of an ideal world in which I was asking for compliments wihtout wanting to pay for it in terms of media-imposed beauty standards.
Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side, seducing difficult women, I know. Can you admit this is not a true statement? Saying one group of people gets more of something than another is comparing those two groups of people.
This is basic English. How am I misunderstanding? What part of the above do you not understand? This is the exact same model we see happen with women—that positive and negative attention go hand in hand.
You are assuming that women "feel appreciated" for their appearance because they get more compliments or else why would you think men would feel appreciated if they got more compliments tooand I am telling you that because those compliments come with a bucketload of criticism, most women do not actually feel appreciated but rather judged and restricted when it comes to their looks.
Do you not believe me, or do you just think that somehow appearance-based attention will magically work better for men? Yes, positive and negative attention go hand in hand. To understand that the kind of desire they have — with all its potentionally negative social consequences — can also be directed at them.
And that would make it easier to develop the feeling of sexual self-worth, that they, too, have something to give. I mean, think of gay communities. I never liked my body. I always felt too fat. Noone ever told me. It was all self-induced media. Hmm, what I understood Sam to be saying was somewhat seducing difficult women. Just as women are harmed by being seen as containers and seducing difficult women of sex, men are harmed by being seen as beings who must obtain the foreign substance of sex — in other words, who are not themselves sexual, sexy, and desirable.
A healthy attitude toward sex means reframing not just how we see women as collaborative partners who may well want sex, and whose desires matterbut also how we see men as beings whose sexuality does not have to be about taking sex from others, but who are themselves sexual.
Thanks kleenestar for apparently expressing more clearly what I tried to say than I can express it myself. Oh science, thank you Kleenestar. I almost rage closed the browser after reading these two talk past each other without a useful frame to have a productive conversation.
Complimenting us guys does increase our self-value, but so what? Having your sexual and societal worth based almost entirely upon appearance and the uncontrollable clock —at least very, very often—would seducing difficult women terribly dehumanizing and fatalistic. Comedians, lawyers, any skill that requires another participant takes at least some of that. Such as: I give you sex, cuddles, clean the house and watch TV with you; ergo I receive sex, emotional support, dish washing and help with my music projects….
Am I understanding you correctly? But humans are complicated and messy. For the most part you are understanding. Someone who does desire obligation, and who appreciates when I say, "I seducing difficult women this to you. One Less Worry is a great gift. That is exactly the thing I value most! Our code word for that is "magic. Laundry happens by magic — clean clothes just appear in my drawers, seducing difficult women.
We say things like, "Please accept this gift" and "Look what an opportunity you gave me to show how I love you" and "I keep my promises to you. That gives me a certain amount of expertise, and it makes me worry that the women who will value One Less Worry will, like me, react very badly to the "owe" framing.
No, this is very helpful. And I do want to hear more about the equal partnership marriages. But I tend to frame the nicest parts of myself in the blackest terms. Part of that is worry about being taken advantage of. Or worse, taking advantage of another person. Call me a cynic, but someone who always plays up how kind they are is generally hiding something. Keep thinking about things, the whys and the hows and all that, you should do just fine. I think you are right to worry about taking advantage.
We live in a society where men are told that their gender role is to be selfish, intemperate, unjust, and cruel. Women get a different set of passes from our society, and have their own set of issues to resist. The question is just how to follow through. A classic and fairly accessible text on bell from how to pick up girls in a dungeon marriages, that looks at both the challenges and rewards of equal partnership.
Addresses the "quid pro quo" issue and deals honestly with issues of sexuality in long-term relationships, seducing difficult women. One Less Worry IS a great gift! One of my most important qualities I wanted in a partner was "someone who has their shit together and to whom i can just delegate joint tasks to and be sure they will happen" Oddly specific, but there you have it. Both partners invest capital time, seducing difficult women, emotional vulnerability, energy, sex and both get something out of it sex, emotional support, companionship.
Successful businesses partnerships are based on trust, respect, mutual benefits, clearly stated needs and goal, etc. Why does this matter? Because it kinda sounds like obligations aka doing something because your partner wants it without the whole "I paid for this…. The question you need to be asking is what can I do to make her feel happy and loved. Hoplite shields were designed to guard the person seducing difficult women your left as much as yourself.
My dad once described a really great relationship as sitting back to back in a foxhole. You may be surrounded by muck and shit and hell, but so long as you have each other to lean on, you never have to sleep face down in it. I can keep going with the movie references. I ask because I come from a long-term relationship where the equivalent situation often went: he initiated, I said yes, he asked "but do you really, really, REALLY want it?
And then he would pout and subtly pressure me for the next many hours. Sometimes I seducing difficult women and said that yes I was totally into it, just to avoid the inevitable pouting, seducing difficult women then afterwards I just felt icky. As I learned in my relationship, this is a ridiculous and toxic attitude.
If your partner is pleasuring you, you should pleasure your partner. The more people who say it, the better. Seducing difficult women it will help someone figure out that women like sex. Considering how many people need that latter sentence beaten into them with a spiked paddle, yes please, repeat as often as possible! No one likes uncertainty but we all have to deal with it in a multitude of ways every day.
Trying to reduce or eliminate that uncertainty is what leads to the manipulative and controlling behavior of the PUA in the first place. When a woman has sex with you, she should not be "giving" it to you in exchange for something because she should want to do it too! Also, this idea is INCREDIBLY hurtful to women who actually like having sex, especially women who like having casual sex.
What if your seducing difficult women of in-between?. My job and hobb kind of mandates that. I can talk to men, women, and children. My problem seems to be getting them to see me as boyfriend or even sex material. I tend to register on a more platonic, less threatening but at the same time less sexual level even when attempting to be sexual.
Other men seem much better at getting them to be more interested in them and get the lets go aside and seducing difficult women about each other.
I posted a video of myself. At the same time, I think its more than my voice. I mentioned on this blog before that I have an identitical twin brother. He looks like a clean-shaving version of me but has a much better voice. We make about the same amount of money and are in the same place career wise.
He has more or less the same dating problems I have. Anyway it might well be that you have similar problems. Passion needs something to spark; adrenaline, tension, some kind of spit and fire.
They heighten emotion as they escalate and flow back and forth. Arguments can be pretty hot. Is antagonistic flirting really that necessary? I go out more on weekdays to, at least a few times a seducing difficult women rather than just stay in my apartment after work in the past.
They seem to do fine. My own style tends to run towards the Warm and Cheerful, which has done me just fine. You come across as relentlessly negative. Some of this is voice tone, seducing difficult women, some of it is body language and facial expression, and some of it is the words you use. The good news is that you can attack it from more than one angle.
If changing your voice tone seems hard, then you can think about how to counteract it with body language, or with topics of conversation. Forgive me if this sounds harsh. You seemed uncomfortable and your sentences kind of ran together. Were you nervous during the shoot and did they cut your sentences seducing difficult women weirdly?
I certainly tend to do my part of the emotional work. However, I do believe that many women seem to expect a bigger initial investment from men in terms of emotion and commitment than they are willing to give unit latter. I expect equal emotional investment on her part now rather than latter. Or bluntly, seducing difficult women, I want her to make me feel special to.
I think they call this negging? Even if flawed, I do believe there is a lot more to the PUA stuff than negging. DNL has cleaned up quite a lot up for us beyond negging. I was thinking specifically of a video I stumbled across while procrastinating for my finals. For example, one of the biggest things I learned is that being negative is unattractive. If the conversation moved towards the negative, I would move it back to positive or neutral topics.
It could also be messaging your intent. I tend to have the problem of not interacting on seducing difficult women more than a professional level with people. While this serves me well at work, I extend this into my dating life as well, which is where I run into problems.
I can be polite, seducing difficult women, nice, funny, even a little charming but usually in a very non-committal "office friendly" way. While this means I have no trouble talking to women, I would run into a similar problem.
So not that I have the answers for how to overcome this problem, I just lucked out and found a girl patient enough to wait for me to open up. But it might be something to look into, are you messaging your intent, with more than just words too, body language, emotional investment and so on… This is what I was trying to say, just much better expressed.
You do have to communicate desire, one way or another. People react to the vibe they are sent. Not always of course, but seducing difficult women enough. Desire is not much different. They may not reciprocate, of course, but the chances are infinitely greater if they definitely get the intended message. Stop hitting on much younger women and talk to women your own age.
You might have more luck. But definitely stop framing it as "getting" people to like you, seducing difficult women. The semantic shift to "becoming more attractive" will help you see this is about improving the quality of the product on offer and not just making the marketing more manipulative. Have you thought about personal coaching? Take more of a "a rising tide lifts all boats" approach. Improving and maintaining personal skills is no different from improving and maintaining other skills.
You might be going to dance workshops seducing difficult women to professional training even though you already know both how to dance and how to do your job. Personal coaching is no different. Another option is toast masters. They are more focused on public speaking than personal interaction, but engaging an audience is a skill that public speakers need to master. Neither of these suggestions can hurt you, and both can be helpful for many aspects of your life.
I kind of like a non-expensive option at this point. Something free or freeish for once please. Toastmasters is a great suggestion. It costs almost nothing, is a great way to meet and interact with new people, and can be beneficial both socially and professionally. You can visit most Toastmasters groups one or more times without paying or signing up, so you can find one that feels right seducing difficult women you, seducing difficult women.
I had a friend in college who was nice but WOW awkward and had a lot of trouble expressing himself. He did Toastmasters and the transformation was amazing. He was so much more engaging and at seducing difficult women in social situations after that. It helped him professionally, too! Long term relationships, based on clear give and take, sprout more frequently from acquaintance to friend progression than "guy I met at the club, seducing difficult women.
Then again and I grant you a lot of it comes from the twisted socialization of men that to be masculine is to get sexso much of the advice of men, even the fairly-decent advice, maintains or reinforces that idea of sex as the ultimate goal, and women valued based on her looks.
So on the one hand, I am always glad to hear about guys who get better at understanding, relating, and dating women. But on the other, so much of "getting better" with women seducing difficult women tied to guys just getting laid constantly, and the "seduction" techniques, even when done respectfully and ethically, still make me feel a little slimy.
Otherwise, I dunno, everyone will get confused and straight people will land up in same-sex relationships by accident? You are so right! I never thought about that. I mean communication skills, negotiation strategies, conflict resolution, etc. I dunno… Well, I guess keeping men and women feeling like they can never understand each other keeps the dating industry in business? And the seducing difficult women industry, advice industry, lad mags, seducing difficult women, etc.
And where would media be if men and women realized they are more alike than not? No more rom con, hangover genre, seducing difficult women all that. The study hypothesized that it was because women are socialized to have a large social network friends, family etc to provide emotional and social support and that men get all their emotional support from their romantic partner. So when the relationship ended, their entire emotional world collapsed. Having spent a lot of time in relationships bucking against the "Women are crazy emotional" trend by being calm and unlikely to burst into tears seducing difficult women walking my partners through various emotional minefields, I can say that this is probably very true.
Putting myself in the shoes of someone without said parachute… well I can see why you might not want to leap at all, or if you DO leap, why you would stick to soft landings aka seducing difficult women one-night stand unlikely to lead to romantic entanglement So maybe what we should be advising guys on is not dating, but the stuff that goes along side it.
But also because having your support network that is unrelated to genitals makes the genitals part a lot easier, a lot safer, seducing difficult women, a lot less likely to take a bite out of you, seducing difficult women.
And therefore make them more willing to try seducing difficult women whole "mutually emotionally supportive" relationship thing. I think you have pointed out something very important that is missing from these discussions. I think this largely explains why there are so many more dudes with negative attitudes towards women than vice-versa.
Though this is really hard to change, because it requires other people to change their perspectives as well. I do know that even those with large support structures in the forms of friends and family, seducing difficult women, support structures that were much larger and steadier than mine, still seemed to stick to the "must have more sex" mentality. Not for nothing, but it think the sheer number of female followers of this site suggests that this advice transcends gender.
When your audience is already outside the mainstream, theres no pressure to conform to gender steriotypes, and the advice is generally better. Not courting talk — real straight talk about souls, for life is holy and every moment is precious. Although, to be fair, there are plenty of obsolete tools that are more useful. Personally, I like watching glass-blowing demonstrations.
It starts out that way for me, but then it descents into impotent rageland. I see no other explanation. To be honest, he just sucked all the air out of the discussion on the one article he got all bent out of shape over. AND he had about a million annoying posting tics using titles, signing his posts, capitalizing Men and Women. I also tend to stay away when people try too hard to get me to go to their sites.
What separated him from garden-variety clueless PUA trolling was that he rigorously held to the appearance of politeness. That, and the sheer persistence. Never has somebody with so little to say used so many words to say it. He has yet to provide anybody with any reason to think that seriously engaging him is a good use of your time. Or the attack on credentials leveled when anybody who actually understood his SCIENCE!
Or the claim that he was the Most Rational Person in the Room and that objective rationality is the proper way to have a discussion with someone who seems to be basically advocating scenarios where women cannot refuse men because…politeness?
That might be a personal peeve of mine, but I have a really hard time with the self-proclaimed King of All Rationality and Objectivity types. Such delusions truly make one a dumbasshole. I particularly liked the bit where he tried to go after my credentials when I told him he was deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of English words.
Home planet for MRAs, Red Pill types and people who think that women are after their precious bodily fluids a la Dr. The whole site is vile and the forums are even viler than that. Yeah, he pissed me off on many levels. I tried to play nice for a while, but if I see him again its all in for Poke the Troll! Has anyone else read A Confederacy of Dunces if not, then you should?
Because I was reading some of his comments yesterday, and holy cow, he is literally a real life version of the main character. I got bullied a lot growing up. Some people seemed to delight in telling me how horrible, ugly and awful I apparently am. Not in a dating way anyway. I have female friends, seducing difficult women. I came to the conclusion that the cause of this is my looks, seducing difficult women.
Not that looks are everything or that women are shallow because I believe neither of those things. I just feel my looks are such a problem that my other qualities cannot compensate, if that makes sense? I was frustrated and upset that nothing I did ever changed anything. I analyzed and took responsibility for my behaviours. I have to learn to be someone else". And the journey into PUA began.
It was a huge mistake. Ideally, seducing difficult women, I wanted to be attractive to women but as me not some made up character. PUA did not bring me any positives. All it ever did was encourage me to act like a complete asshole. By the end of my PUA experiment, less women liked me than before. The very rare times women found me attractive were not times when I was using PUA routines or techniques. They were times when I was just being myself.
Moral of story: if you hate yourself, stay out of PUA. You have my sympathies for going through some truly awful shit and my deepest respect for not coming out of it a bitter, seducing difficult women, cynical asshole. You sound like you have legit strength of character, seducing difficult women. Whether or not the message was true then is irrelevant. Look at what is happening now. You are a guy who some women seducing difficult women attractive, which makes you pretty much like most other guys.
Keep reminding yourself of this, regularly, even when you seducing difficult women not actively trying to meet women.
Make a flash card with the truthful message and tape it to your mirror if necessary. When people tell you ugly things every day for years, you DO absorb it, whether you want to or not. This is a good idea. I tried PUA once, too.
I always could feel that underlying implication to fake things and to not treat women as humans, made me feel disgusting. I think that the lack of relationship advise aimed at men is because men are socialized that to be masculine is to fuck.
Its assumed to be safer to give women relationship advise because the assumption is that women would put the advise to something nobler, building a long term romantic relationship and eventually, a family. The assumption is that all men will use relationship advise to something much less noble, sleeping with as a many women as possible. Seriously, would you date someone who would date you?
Has no knowledge of music, avoid if you have any self-respect. Do PUA techniques actually work? They seem more than a little dubious to me. Even ignoring all the ethical issues, they seem to be things that anybody with an oridinary amount of intelligence and self-respect could easily deflect if they want to. That means that the would be most effective when used on people with issues, who you probably want to avoid in the first place or that you basically need to make a psychological healthy person experience short-term Stockholm Syndrome, which is immoral.
She is never cruel, seducing difficult women, just quick witted, so she can see their strategy and potential moves long before they do. She is also an amazing chess player, so they are generally outclassed. And she has probably seen every variation of the game a million times I experimented with PUA a few years earlier. It ended disastrously, I did not get laid, and I seriously creeped out several women including my then-neighbors, haha.
I still am kind of a fan of PUA stuff because it speaks of hope. So the existence of PUA gives me hope seducing difficult women somehow, someday, with enough effort, my fate may change. What I think is that PUA is basically a placebo. The only reason you would get into PUA is if your social circle was useless. Meyer, this is the second time this week you have mentioned suicide. If you are in a place where you are considering it, I strongly urge you to seek professional help.
I do believe you mentioned being in med school, so you should have access to support services, seducing difficult women. Suicidal thoughts are a symptoms that must be treated. Now is what you want getting laid, as in the physical act and can be solved with an escort or the physical act and the validation of meeting a woman who wants to have sex with you?
Self-hate is the anti-aphrodisiac. You need to work out that nonsense. For me, the PRINCIPLES were far more effective than the techniques. By principles I mean knowing your strengths and going to venues that leverage them,being congruent is the "best self" you want to communicate lining up with how you see yourself? A majority of these are what DNL espouse already. They are things that require you to work before you even do a cold approach. Many of them were incongruent with me or what I would actually do.
U-shaped blah blah blah? I wanted to meet you" and I know there are some women here who will even HATE that, but things worked out for me and the women involved. What many of the feminist wholesale "fuck PUA" articles will conveniently ignore is that there were already existing internal critiques of PUA assumptions and culture.
Some emphasized vulnerability and authenticity not just as a technique, but a way to bring more quality interactions into your life in general. Yes, there are male dating-advice gurus and their acolytes who are misogynistic assholes who cling to a deliberate misunderstanding of evolutionary psychology to salve their wounded egos.
You can only develop the REAL you enough to be somebody someone would want to fuck and then create the context for fucking them. Anything else is just to get your money. There are still a lot of people who have heard of these things running around out there. And PUAs who tend to comment on sites like this frequently defend tactics like negging. There are still a lot of people who have seducing difficult women of these things running around out there I ran into someone doing really obvious, corny shit a few weeks ago!
No argument with you there. To me, it can border on moral panic. As a Christian, I strongly support gay marriage, try to keep my faith to myself, and only seek out churches and religious communities with similar bents which, in my city, are actually quite a few.
The very best I can do is to be just as loud and present as the hate-filled Christians, to remind others that we do exist.
Those are the parts of PUA I have no issue with. My issue with the majority of the genre is acting like women are pelts to nail to the wall. Also, these tips can be a disaster in the hands of people who are bad at reading social cues. This is why I like DNL, all the seduction, seducing difficult women, zero exploitation.
Her breakdown of the community was pretty much this: Analysts- People who want to understand how human interactions work, like thinking about gender, and want to see these principles applied in practice. Hedonists— Guys who are in it to have fun and generally enjoy having sex and partying.
Leaders— Community organizer types who tike being a forum moderator and enjoy helping out other guys. Sharks— Seducing difficult women out to make a quick buck off desperate men. Darth Vaders— Guys who are out to get revenge or assert their power over women.
Confessions of a Pick Up Artist Chaser is available in the Dr. NerdLove Bookstoreby the by. See any number of other comments about "there are plenty of ethically neutral PUA techniques that work, plenty of unethical ones that are coercive and plenty of toxic attitudes underlying both.
They do debate that "grab her hand and shove it down your pants. Hope that was coherent. I usually wait until I know a man well enough and trust him enough to reveal that I do like being thrown around sometimes. Because for some reason the men who flock to this things have difficulty understanding the difference between "power to" and "power over, seducing difficult women. Not saying this is the only reason for this. I mean, we tend ot think beautiful people are shallow, muscled people are dumb etc.
Is the matching pair that physically attractive guys have horrible personalities? Kickstarter writing this will just make this issue worse. Why not be discreet about it? That sort of thing is really really uncommon. This material encourages misogynistic behavior and is inconsistent with our mission of funding creative works.
These things do not belong on Kickstarter. To me, this is the very definition of a chilling effect on free speech. I would kickstarter-fund the shit out of a Dr.
I just wish kickstarter had said "we were wrong and will be more vigilant in the future, taking these things on their merit on a case-by-case basis" rather than the blanket ban. It already places many limits on projects — no pornography, charity drives, endorsements of political candidates, energy drinks, nutritional supplements, cosmetics, electronic surveillance equipment; eyewear, real estate, or raffles.
Chilling effects on free speech are a seducing difficult women concern — the First Amendment has nothing to do with private companies and what speech they allow on their privately-owned platforms. You have a right to say anything you want without anyone stopping you. I was speaking of free speech as more of an abstract principle. That said, I am no libertarian, I do not think free speech rights are absolute, and I explicitly agreed with the action kickstarter took in this instance.
I was merely dismayed that they went with the nuclear option going forward, rather than taking things on a case-by-case basis — though, again, of course it is their right to do so. I have to say the growing awareness online of PUA techniques heartens me a bit, because the more women that are seducing difficult women of them, the more women will recognize it when it comes at them.
PUA techniques should rightly be torn apart for the misogynistic, criminal dreck they are. Thank you DNL for taking the task of doing so upon yourself. One can only hope your words reach the audience that needs it most. Chill with your strawman attack on PUA. This site deserves smarter comments than that. But the people that teach PUA techniques are teaching already socially awkward and unsure people the exact WRONG way to go about being better with women, seducing difficult women, and a lot of the techniques they teach are practically telling men to assault women.
Me and my nerd friends felt the exact opposite when we started getting into PUA: that Freeze Out was meant to avoid a situation where someone could get hurt, as well as a way to save face from being embarrased about being rejected. I have "used" Freeze Outs before: I was never unkind or cruel, typically I would suggest a non-sexual activity for the time being and try to completely shut down the escalation. So a "Friend Out" completely shutting down, disacknowledging sexual feelings and behavior and suggesting a mutually agreeable social activity that does not involve physical touching struck me as the least evil of both worlds.
Freeze Out is terrible. Friend Out sounds pretty cool. Maybe you can spread the Friend Out word! See, I wanted to avoid committing sexual assault, I also wanted to avoid becoming some pathetic pile of pleading because it would be so difficult to look myself in the mirror either way. I guess I would be less bothered by that if you made a good-faith effort to be able to talk about it later. I mean, I guess what I am saying is that all the "Freeze Out" shit I read in the beginning days anyways said more about "Put on a movie" or "Pull out a chessboard" rather than getting up and leaving.
I personally like calling that kind of thing a "Friend Out" better. If their is ambiguity about sex, I would rather not pursue sex. I want my partners to be passionately and wildly enthusiastic about sex with me, not conflicted and ambiguous. Turns out, knife play is so far outside my comfort zone that it needs to be on my no-fly list.
My partner, on the other hand, was REALLY enjoying herself. Unexpectedly crashing down from that when I pulled the plug was clearly no fun for her either, but she did a good job of owning her reaction and respecting my own without being all "WHY ARE YOU STOPPING YOU BOX-TEASING BASTARD!!!
A Freeze Out is basically an instant and complete cold shoulder. What you did was to respect her boundaries and back off, which is what any decent person should do. The thing is: dating IS a game. The problem with Mr. If a woman or a man is not interested in you: find another one. Call me a sentimental idiot, but I think that all of my relationships, despite not lasting, have added value to my life. I maintain friendships or at least amicable acquaintances with plenty of my exes, seducing difficult women.
But if you are trying to pick up on a stranger, at a bar, which is what I gather PUA are after, why fixate on the one chick who is rejecting you? Accepting that a relationship will only be a friendship or a friendly exes situation is one form of moving on. So is literally moving on and not having any further interactions with the woman.
One problematic aspect of dating in American society that I have observed is how often the term "using" gets thrown around. Using happens, seducing difficult women is true, but sometimes those who accuse another of "using" are just hurt that they can have the exact kind of relationship that they want with the person that they want to have it with. I have guy friends who accuse girls of using them for friendship and favors, and female friends that accuse guy friends of using them for sex I had one friend who got "friendzoned" I hate that word by a girl he really, really liked.
He did not call her a bitch or a slut, respected her decisions but it was too difficult for him to be around her, so he faded off into the background. No, no, you see, the paragraph before that one explained quite clearly that he was about to suggest an awful technique that you should never try because its basically sexual assault. Now is the time to ramp up the physical escalation. On a more general note, this discussion reminded me of another article.
She should feel drowned in desire, incapable of rational thought. Yanking off her clothes impatiently, pulling her hair, pinning her to the wall or the bed, turning her over bodily, scraping your teeth on her lips, these are all valuable forms of physical control and force that seducing difficult women can play with. I assume it must be the latter. That said, I still disagree with her making such an enormous generalization, and think she ought to have been even more explicit and repetitive about the importance of consent to the whole thing, seducing difficult women.
For anyone following along, this article is from The Dirty Normal, at portalfinanciero.info …. Although she is prone to making pretty big generalizations, and to assuming her audience are actually reasonable human beings, she also has some interesting stuff. Because anything that mentions the potential of sex not happening is wildly disturbing in these circles and sends them into a fervent chant, seducing difficult women.
THIS IS TOO COMPLICATED! Nerdlove, after having had a lot of sex and after having gone through the PUA lifestyle, do you mean to suggest that the following does not happen to many women out there? They want to have sex.
But are afraid of how they will be perceived — especially by their own female friends. Women are the biggest critics of each other when it comes to slut-shaming. The Anti-Slut defense is very real — many girls fear being called sluts. But that is the reality.
As someone who hopes to have sex with her, it is your responsibility to make her feel comfortable about wanting sex and to come across as non-judgmental, seducing difficult women. Do you mean to suggest that you never encountered Last Minute Resistance?
Why is that concept misogynistic? It simply points to the reality. We do not yet live in a sex-positive society — so Last Minute Resistance is very real. The fact that some of the feminist women visiting this forum have sex-positive attitudes and do not fear societal judgement does not mean that this is the case for many women in America.
Also, dominance is a key element of sex. Many women like being dominated in bed. The extent of domination preferred by each woman is of course different. So, unless the partner is taking the initiative to expose you, how do you go about seducing difficult women naked? I agree with you about the number scale. It promotes ego-association to an activity that should be enjoyed for its own sake. Rape fantasies are a thing. Do they still like to be dominated? I sometimes wonder whether people mean vastly different things and have completely different associations.
I would be interested in hearing what people mean in more concrete terms. Do "men" like football? Do "people" like food? Ditto not wanting to be slut shamed. When they say no, you fucking stop. Statistics mean nothing to the individual: there may be millions of women who do want to be dominated, but guess what? All you know about the individual offering "LMR" is that she is saying no. And if someone says no, what do we do? Even someone who is a submissive might not look too kindly on a rando showing up to assert his "dominance" out of the blue.
Definitely important to view BSDM and power play as collaborative, even if it seems different on the surface. I mean, if I say no, what I seducing difficult women is no, and him putting his pants back on is a best case scenario, especially if he is pulling the put-my-hand-on-his-dick trick. So, another form of backfire. If he just backed off when being told to back off, absolutely. But making a big deal of seducing difficult women by flipping the lights on and getting dressed again?
That comes across as petulant, not indifferent. Unfortunately, I think this is seducing difficult women of those moves that will end up coercing some women who are feeling uncertain about themselves. It will scare away a hell of a lot of women who are feeling more confident, and will probably just confuse a lot of others.
Like I said, best case scenario. Win seducing difficult women me, just seems like blue balls for you. The way I see it, telling the woman to leave my apartment is a lot better than making out for an hour. I like confident men. We do not live in the ideological environment where women can share their desire to be submissive to confident men because of feminism. However, books like the wildly popular Fifty Shades of Gray attest the to the true nature of female desire.
I know submissive women. They have no problem talking about it, either explicitly in BDSM terms or in vague concepts like "I like a man to take charge. I see far too many RedPillers insisting that because a not-insignificant number of women have rape fantasies, it must mean women deep down want to be over-powered and raped.
Is it somehow a shocker to think a lot of women want a man who is confident and strong, anymore than it is to realize men want a woman who is confident and sweet? I have yet to hear a guy be like "Man, that clingy, needy, seducing difficult women, bitchy girl is totally the one for me! Yes, some women are into that…, seducing difficult women. To be fair I totally want to punch terrorists and diffuse potential nuclear armageddons and I would not be offended if someone assumed that of me.
On the other hand, Game of Thrones is also immensely popular, and yet the market for being flayed is limited to a decided minority of the population. Because ONE book series is popular, therefore all women have read it, embraced it as gospel, seducing difficult women, and treat it like personal bibles?
I may just need to swap out my abstinence belt. Be sure to ask your dad first. No, saying women like "confident" men has nothing to do with being submissive. In my case and those of most women I know, it just means we like to have our relationships be between equals. If women seducing difficult women relationships between equals, why do they consistently prefer to marry up in terms of socioeconomic status?
Wickham from Pride and Prejudice. Contrast Lizzie Bennett, who turns mega-rich Darcy down until they have mutual affection AND respect. Well, not really, because that would be creepy. That is your interpretation of what those results mean? Good to know someone has finally found me out! Dang, you got me there. In fact, I question how confident a man really is who needs women to submit to him to feel better about himself. See also "Downton Abbey," the rich American marrying the Duke.
In our times this sort of behavior is exhibited by someone like Teresa Heines marrying John Kerry. Women, by and large, want a man who has high social standing relative to the other men in his social environment.
They most certainly do not prefer social status equality over the male being superior in that regard… DO we? Yeah, money is not what I look for in a dateable person, beyond basic fiscal responsibility. But perhaps to you that shuts me out of women "by and large".
Perhaps I am now woman "non-adjacent and small"? Honestly if only seducing difficult women rich dudes got laid and or married then I doubt earth would have a population in the billions. Not to defend Mr. He no seducing difficult women said money, and you are making a ridiculous straw man of what he said, seducing difficult women.
Clearly some of the stuff here is a misconception. Are you suggesting just saying "Would you like to come back to my place to have sex? The PUA stops when he senses this resistance and does something non-sexual, maybe check his phone or email, play some cards,watch tvand waits for the woman to reinitiate contact. If you look at the Pua stuff on freezing out they explicitly seducing difficult women NOT TO ACT LIKE YOU ARE HURT OR AFFECTED by her rejection.
This is just a physical version of that. Of course seducing difficult women would be some women like seducing difficult women but. Why are there all these field reports of PUAs-in-training approaching womenseducing difficult women, and despite initially getting a frigid responseseducing difficult women, eventually impressing her and winning her over with their banter and confidence and routines?
Are all these guys lying? If these women did really want to be left alone and not meet the PUAswhy are they successful at seducing them and winning them over? Freezeout can mean anything from deliberately not contacting someone until she does it because she refused X, to the watered-down version you mention. Frigid could constitute anything from not immediatelly fawning over the PUA to actively insulting the dude. Are there by the way any field reports posted ever that really end in failure?
I suppose most people only post their success stories. A lot of them are failures. Some will describe rejected by several women before being successful or just being rejected all night. Many PUAs post just to ask what they did wrong.
Its supposed build tension and get the woman to miss your touch so seducing difficult women she will re-initiate contact. She initiates contact because she wants it. Eventually a few women respond for whatever reason, and this gets misinterpreted as a success for the technique, rather than looking at the overall efficacy throughout the whole set.
No, they report failures all the time. Part of the point of field reports is to isolate problems. Could you respond to my comment? If I had to isolate my points they would be. She reinitiates contact because she wants you. This is, in theory, to make them miss it and want to re-engage. In practice this is drawing on social pressure to make them give in. People have sex for many, many reasons, seducing difficult women, and not always the ones that seem obvious.
SHE, on the other hand, slept with you because she was bored. Or felt fat and wanted to feel pretty, seducing difficult women.
Or she was kinda drunk and thought it was a good idea at the time. Or thought you were cute even if you were trying a little too hard with the cheesy stuff.
Or she just wanted to bang someone and you were the best available option, seducing difficult women. I remember one FR where a woman told a pua during a conversation that she would not be having sex with him that night.
She did end sleeping with him that night. He asked her later why she said seducing difficult women and she said that she really did like him and wanted to sleep with himshe was just testing to see his reaction and if he was just trying to get her in bed. By her own admission she was using a textbook "shit test", a small lie to see what his reaction would be.
A large number of PUAs are engaged in trying to get something covertly that they could just be honest about. Given that, why should their reports of their activities be honest and truly reported?
Can we check in about this in a little while? Note that this is a pretty broad spectrum — clearly annoying is very different than actually dangerous. Try some Kino physical touching and see if she responds positively or negatively.
If the signs are positive, make a move. Or use the bathroom, seducing difficult women. Give her a minute to look around and relax without you in the room not to long, but enough for her to start to feel comfortable.
Escalate verbally flirting or with kino touching. Look for whether she responds positively or negatively. If you make a move and she turns you down, then back off. You can certainly find "Game" advice that is more aggressive than this, but either way, seducing difficult women, anyone offering real relationship advice would start with that this is necessary, then if they cared about ethics talk about good and bad ways for this to go.
He even has an article on—gasp! In fact, his consistent theme in his previous comment was that the "techniques" are specifically not about pressuring her.
I can say there are many, many guys who I have known personally who have only started having success when they ignored all the fear mongering advice, so yes, I know that this style of advice has definitely hurt some people. Um, Paul, between this and your comment below where you misread a woman as saying the exact opposite of what she did i.
I guess in your mind he should have copied and pasted the entire article rather than assuming people could remember what this comment section is all referring to? Heck, DNL even links to several articles about what to do, including one discussing how to use PUA techniques in better ways, right in this article!
But our priorities are obviously very different. If you want to discuss that though, I see not point in doing so up here in a totally different comment.
Clarisse Thorn could answer it, because spreading a general sense of fear and danger about dating is not her topmost priorities.
It is a simple and straightforward question. Your response is basically like:. PersonA: Uh…yeah, like I said we already turned off the power. If your highest priorities are always discussing how dangerous everything is, this conversation completely makes sense. But if your priority is actually getting the power hooked up, then this conversation is idiotic. Oh no, that could be rapey! How do you know she wants to do it? Are you absolutely sure? When your priority is helping people drive successfully, they start with helpful advice, then add cautionary advice about what could go wrong as well.
You know when it takes you three consecutive posts to make your point that a lot of us tune out, right? Yeah, "game"s advice could be interpreted to be problematic if you add assumptions which actually are explicitly rebuffed in the advice. Worse, PUA advice — or, to be more charitable, PUA advice as it circulates in certain communities — makes some kinds of situations more likely to be dangerous. To any ethical human being, they should. I have a friend who really liked a girl. He hung out with her, etc.
But he also followed all of this "politically correct" advice, seducing difficult women. It would be innapropriate, after all, for him to invite her over to his place.
If they were alone together, she was "scared" something was going to happen, seducing difficult women. Well eventually, she dated someone else. And he started reading "game". Frankly, it was a little irritating for me, lol. He said in retrospect, the girl he was seducing difficult women in had clearly been seducing difficult women in him.
He had no idea at the time that the whole idea of getting him out to the car — alone — was to give him an opportunity to make a move on her. He might have gotten married to that girl — nobody really knows, but he says that to the "understands game" version of him she was repeatedly indicating that she was interested in him, seducing difficult women, and trying to seducing difficult women situations for him to make a move.
Suggesting you do something at your place is something a guy should be doing. AHAHAHAAHAHA oh yes people in our culture need to be reminded that men have feelings and desires because it would be so easy to forget Again, to be fair to Paul, the kind of people reading DNL and PUA stuff are the kind of guys who are used to not standing up for their own boundaries and getting walked on.
So yes, some of them do need a reminder that treating a woman as an equal means equal. It represents a seducing difficult women disregard for the fact that most successful advice for my definition of successful is along more of a middle path. I have great compassion for them and wish them the best of luck. They draw on the same demographic as the Doc does for readers. What I mean is that the DNL community seems to include many decent men who struggle with boundaries and self-worth in relationships.
My personal experience with PUA folks is that many of them have a different set of issues that make relationships difficult — narcissism, selfishness, lack of insight, lack of empathy. But obviously I only am familiar with part of the PUA community. I have no doubt some PUAs are succesful with getting what they want. So are thieves, robbers, pickpocketers, etc. But at some point they will feel the consequences of their behavior. Of course if the PUA in the link was actually forcing himself on women unwilling to have sex with himor guilt tripping women to having sex with him with a "what a cocktease" routine like the doctor is saying here, such actions are reprehensible and in the former case illegal.
I somehow doubt that is what is happening or he is advocating, seducing difficult women. So you have personally experienced these "bitch shields" on numerous occasions when you meet women? Look here portalfinanciero.info …. A girl talks about meeting a PUA. She says she usually has her bitch shield up when random people approach her, but the PUA negged her and broke her bitch shield and won her over with his routine. Just a heads up: Reddit is an awful place full of awful people, and not a good place to get dating advice, seducing difficult women.
Nor has any person you know IRL. In fact, your only proof for the existence of "bitch shields" are some dudes on Reddit. I repeat: bitch shields are not a thing. Bitch shields are widely acknowledged. Ask your female friends about this especially those who go to the club or bar scene. Might want to clear that redefinition with your PUA overloads, seducing difficult women.
It could also be a bunch of half truths or outright lies. One of my biggest complaints with PUA is it encourages guys to use language that sound stupid and means absolutely nothing.
Cult of the self in motion. For whatever reason if we believe any of this happened she changed her mind and they did talk. Could have been as a result of what the PUA did. Could have been because of her and what she did. Could have just happened, seducing difficult women.
If any of it actually happened. It might be an honest account of what happened. It might be total nonsense. Field reports tend to be requests for validation from fellow PUAs as much as they are requests for advice.
Some PUA stuff may well work. I never got much of it to work and it tends to encourage over analysis in guys who are already anxious about meeting women in the first place. Some guys may well have success with PUA. PUAs can be less than honest and adept at confirmation bias where they attribute any and all success to their "routines", seducing difficult women.
And yes, absolutely some PUA stuff might work. Some even works without being toxic. Some of it is also bullshit designed to teach you to treat women as things instead of people. A lot of it is more about getting you to screw up the courage to do something instead of nothing, so its no better or worse than anything else. She might change her mind, she might not. You can still enjoy a great night with them. Is that really what you want? Do you really feel like going on a date, having good conversation and making out with someone whose company you really enjoy would be ruined by her not wanting to have sex on the first date?
How does that person know whether these actions should be considered continuing to push for it and therefore reject that she changed her mindor not and that you therefore should accept that she legitimately changed her mind? Generally, its called social calibration. Depending on the specific example, though, it might also be called common sense. The main point is to do something where your immediate goal is not sex. How is that complicated? Lots of things are common sense and also wrong.
People used to think that it is common sense that a man could not rape his wife. I hope we all agree that this is horrible and wrong. Therefore, seducing difficult women, it is not enough to say that something is common sense, but the exact reasons for why something is ok need to be questioned. And its complicated because of two reasons:.
This is probably wrong, but not so unreasonable that someone could not believe it. The effect might still be that the woman, hurt because the sudden withdrawal of intimacy, initiates sexual interaction although she does not want to.
Now the guy might think that she legitimately changed her mind, while she felt pressured to give in. A freeze-out in the way the term was originally coined — withdrawing ALL affection and attention is far from non-sex seeking. Its rolling over, getting dressed, turning on your laptop and silently doing office work.
It shows the same unilateral attitude as other troubling PUA tactics, seducing difficult women. I know what a freeze-out is. The person in my example does not. True but also something that you want to work on for life in general. In theory anyone can react to anything any way they want. Its the sort of pressure that cult leaders and sleazier things use to find out who they can get a grip on. There is no functional difference between what you do and who you are.
It puzzles me that all these scenarios seem seducing difficult women picture this as some binary choice between doing this weird Freeze Out thing and continuing until she reaches for the pepper spray. What kind of a boy do you think I am? You know whether you are continuing to push for sex because, hopefully, you are aware of your own intentions, and can tell if you are doing something with the intention that it might lead to sex after all vs.
Being normal is the response that makes a guy come across as a safe sex partner. Also, I would have sworn that when I read that the first time her comment said that she has said "no" to guys, not "no, not right now". The same level of discomfort that guys have to deal with every time they ask someone out and get turned down.
What people normally means. Guy trying pick up women. Here are some field reports I liked in an earlier comment portalfinanciero.info …. So, some PUAs have encountered this. BiSian: "Bitch shields are not a thing.
But then I thought back. If something went somewhere, great. If not — then not. So she texts me that evening asking me where I live. I send her my address. She responds insisting that I live "to far away" from where she is. Another time — long story short, a girl I worked at the same company as different department and been friendly with had her fiance cheat seducing difficult women her, and she broke up with him. Not that I would have done that myself.
My first girlfriend in college, I started chatting with outside by my dorm — she was never a jerk in our initial dating. Second girl I kinda dated — no, not really either, seducing difficult women. Third girl I dated and was sleeping with — when I first met her she was really dismissive, we had a friend in common and when she got out of the car she was like "Hang out when I get to college?
Why would we hang out? She was going to be going to the same college I was. I think the "bitch shield" is the gender-equivalent of boys on the playground who hit girls because they like them. There are many reasons why women would be less than receptive about a guy. Especially in clubs or bars where pretty women meet a lot of skeezy guysits understandable that they might be wary about being socialable. Yes, they meet a lot of skeezy guys, like the kind who think that if a woman shows signs of not wanting to interact with him, he should keep pushing to "get past her bitch shields.
I deploy it in an equal opportunity manner to men, women, children old people etc. It only asked why PUA were successful with winning over women at times. So, I am not a native English speaker and have never before encountered the word "ravish".
I was reading the quote in the beginning and decided to check its meaning in the dictionary:. This is freaking terrifying! It has a couple of meanings. To be ravish-ed, not so much. To seize and carry away by force. To force another to have sexual intercourse; rape. To overwhelm with emotion; enrapture. See Synonyms at enrapture. Seems like the dictionary definition of "ravished" is more akin to the common use of "ravaged"… Late to the party, seducing difficult women, but perhaps these people are searching for the word, "ravenous"?
My best guess is that anyone using it this way is attempting to remember the word "ravenous" or "famished" and possibly mixing up the two. To ravish someone… Usually it carries the connotation of really awesome, seducing difficult women, thorough, rough sex. At least that seems to be the most common usage, seducing difficult women. The entire point of feminism was to make the world understand that women are functional humans who can seducing difficult women their own decisions, handle pressure and take care of their own shit.
Humans have been using social manipulation and pressure since the beginning of time. Women in these situations are fully capable of seducing difficult women their own. Just like when women try to use social pressure to manipulate menits a shitty portalfinanciero.info do. And yes, feminism can be part of that de-programming process. The wage gap exists not because society is discriminating against women — but because women are not producing equal results.
Women work long hours less frequently — take maternity breaks and are less willing to fight it out when thing get difficult. Of course, there are many women — my mom included — who are as badass as her top performing male colleagues and I assure you — she does not get paid any less.
Just a thought experiment here…. Many, many studies demonstrate that the wage gap still effects a huge percentage of women. Do you truly, honestly, think that many women suck? That that many women are "lazy" compared to men?
Women being the primary breadwinners, and women being "lazy" so as to deserve lesser pay, makes no sense. Only women can biologically have children. If we insisted women either choose between family or career, we are shooting our society in the foot. If we are saying that women just have to accept lesser pay because of their biology, that is by definition discriminating on the basis of sex. Since women rarely have babies all by themselves.
Of course, maybe you could argue that women get paid less because they choose "feminine" professions like teaching and nursing over jobs that would pay better, like construction and technology.
Why do guys who make roads and code-monkeys get paid more than people who take care of and watch over the first and last generations of humanity? If she is performing less than her male colleagues, seducing difficult women, then she is lazy.
The fact that she chose a deadbeat husband has no bearing on her laziness. A woman can be incredibly lazy in the workplace yet be the breadwinner of her family simply because she is married to a man who refuses to take responsibility for his family. You want to know why not many women go into construction and technology?
Because those jobs are incredibly demanding — either physically or mentally. This is not a communist country where everyone gets paid equally no matter their actual contribution to the economy. Your argument for maternity and wages is incorrect too. Not many male employees would be motivated to work if that starts happening. This is the way any market works in a Capitalist country.
No, you see the difference is, those women should be getting paid exactly the same for doing exactly the same job. If they are refusing to shoulder extra responsibilities above and beyond the jobs parameters, then that just makes them Smarter than their male colleagues. The issue with Maternity leave is that, Men, who become fathers, should be entitled to the same quantity of Paternity Leave since it is equally important for new children and both new parents to be able to spend early bonding time with their child, and the child with them.
So let me get this straight. My male coworker, who has several less years of experience than me, got hired at nearly double that. The argument was he was paid more initially because he had programming knowledge. And I have not taken any maternity or family leave, since I am single. Nice anecdotal story, which, of course, is not data. But seriously, that sounds like good evidence for a lawsuit.
For example, using data from the US Census Current Population Survey, Staiger et al. Women work more than men do when you total up all labor paid and unpaid. Those extra hours the male physicians are getting paid for are being supported by the unpaid labor of women. So, when you were working with those strong and independent women, did you lie to them? Ignore their stated preferences and desires? Insult them in order to get what you wanted from them?
If not, then the difference in the situations seems quite clear to me, seducing difficult women. People got married early and it was hard to get divorced. Maybe this model was oppressive, but nearly everyone being pairing up was a consequence. The consequence has been that a whole lot of men are now missing out on sex than ever before.
When this happens, seducing difficult women, the guy usually "upgrades" to a younger woman, and many men keep defacto harems see college athletes. Obviously, some guys are losing out. Now someone like Doctor Nerdlove urgently recognizes this need and is trying to frame PUA material in a way friendly to women, but he is, along with PUA gurus, among the minority who recognize this need. They want the men who lose out to be silent and remain invisible.
No one is forcing you to have sex with a PUA. Not even the PUAs themselves. They may try to apply social pressure and manipulation — but any reasonably confident woman can easily find her way through those situations.
Why do you want to tell PUAs what seducing difficult women do and what not to do? Let them do whatever they want. If some asshole tries to sexually harass you, you have legal recourse available. Reasonably confident as she may be, I know of few women who would offer to spend a big chunk of her in-public time listening to a guy tell her all her flaws or insist she watch his magic trick.
And did you read any of the excerpts from the book? Yeah, the woman has legal recourse available… AFTER the guy has harassed her by forcing her to put her hand on his cock. Having a legal recourse open is of little value if she has to undergo that sort of treatment constantly, because so many men are convinced THIS is the way to date. Women who are for some reason temporarily depression, stress, having a bad streak emotionally vulnerable, I can assure you, will be culled from the "herd" and preyed upon by exactly this type of behavior.
And the last paragraph is laughable. You will react whether you want to or not. And seducing difficult women one: "If someone tries to sexually harass you you have legal recourse available.
In fact just reading aloud the words you write makes it very difficult for me to picture someone identifying as female writing them — the words ring hollow, as someone approximating what they imagine a strong, confident, no holds barred feminist would say.
Or, going by Mr. Yeah, because insulting people and touching them without their permission is totally A-okay behaviour. The kind of justification PUAs give themselves in order to continue to harass and insult women whose pants thye want to get into deserves to be questioned over and over again. I want to tell PUAs what to do and what to not to do because I get to tell anyone what to do and what not to do.
More concretely, I get to influence the behavior of those around me and those I come in contact with through media. The easiest, most simple way to influence that behavior is through clear communication.
I say what I want; they have the opportunity to grow. All ideologies are not equal and it is ridiculously to act like they are. I am not going to back down from my ideology that PUAs are dangerous and awful just because you want PUAs to be able to be assholes. My goal is to demolish yours. And you are in effect saying that men who lose out as a consequence of the sexual revolution should just accept their fate.
More so then ever, more men face sexual poverty because feminists and liberals have changed culture as to allow alpha males to dominate multiple females simultaneously or successively. That is common sense. What has this got to do with some men wanting to improve their dating life through a PUA lifestyle?
You are not entitled to either sex or a relationship. These are things you have to earn. Because women are human beings. Our choices matter just as much as yours do. To say you do, suggests you can just put enough niceness coins in and get sex or love in return.
They should try harder to be attractive people without resorting to harassment, manipulation, or toxic ideas about women and attraction. I am told, constantly, from every direction, but ESPECIALLY from men, to improve and change myself to attract a man. If I have to do the hard work of making myself appealing to a larger percent of the opposite sex, why should these men you are referring to get off easy? What are the rigged circumstances? A: Women are often content to share a high status man.
The whole "shared male" thing is absolutely ridiculous. Many studies have demonstrate that while men cheat, women cheat in seducing difficult women equal numbers. And as I said above, there is absolutely no conclusive proof of the "cock carousel, seducing difficult women.
But the whole idea that you are either that guy, or a Forever Alone virgin, is ludicrous, and not borne out by any kind of objective proof. A man who can sleep around a lot is being shared by multiple women. The sharing can happen sequentially or simultaneously — e, seducing difficult women.
Sexual poverty is a serious issue. What, seducing difficult women, are you imagining she joins a nunnery after that? When you seducing difficult women the averages it will appear as if there is a one to one ratio, seducing difficult women, but there is more variance now than in the past. Where are you getting these numbers? Rub salt into our wounds, seducing difficult women.
We will organize and keep commenting negatively on your feminist blogs. It seems like something that a person can just go at willy-nilly, no special preparation required. A lot of these ideas I came with recently. I will develop my thesis slowly and gain evidence over time. In the mean time I will keep sharing that thesis with you. Going the other way around is just seeking out badly-reasoned "proof" with a side of self-selection.
I bet he flips his shit if I make out with a girl in front of him just like the Zentradi did. Your numbers only make sense and only very little, at that if all of the women in the sample group ONLY date the one man in question, seducing difficult women, for whatever subsection of time they do so, seducing difficult women, and remain celibate and dateless for the remainder.
I recognize that conceiving of women as existing solely in terms of their relationship to the dude is second nature in the pick-up and other systemized asshattery seducing difficult women but it defies math, logic, and real world behavioral base rates.
And mook-level PUA tactics ignore two big rules:. That is where they go grossly wrong.
Amazing: Seducing difficult women
|How to woo a man in bed||Another time — long story short, a girl I worked at the same company as different department and been friendly with had her fiance cheat on her, and she broke up with him. For those women who try to "score" that way, it usually seems to work. White has made it her mission to teach women how to unleash the power of this famous seducer. The trick is knowing how to do this without appearing sleezy or creepy. Hedonists— Guys who are in it to have fun and generally enjoy having sex and partying, seducing difficult women. I was speaking of free speech as more of an seducing difficult women principle.|
|GROUP OF HOT GIRLS||Make sure to find the right balance. How is she feeling right now? Meyer, this is the second time this week you have mentioned suicide. An attractive woman would also be one that can cook and make bento lunch boxes for him, home cooked dinner every night, and respects him as the alpha male of the house. To address the situation, there seem to be two directions — help men feel that they can from their perspective, seducing difficult women, not yours "afford" a more selective strategy, give them the confidence that seducing difficult women, too, are allowed to say no without being afraid that it was the last chance on earth, and help women to employ a less selective strategy for example by socially removing things for her to worry about — like rape culture, for example, and slut shaming- women have a lot of good reasons to say no in a lot of cases. Stop hitting on much younger women and talk to women your own age. She loves her guy but insists on a modern relationship.|
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